This interview with Leslie Short, CEO of The CAVU Group zeroes in on the role of diversity, inclusion, gender, personal growth, and connection with other people. We talk about how when reinventing yourself a solid network of people and connections will allows to you to grow and smoothen your transition. Leslie also shares her knowledge and personal experiences about creating and respecting (work) culture, something she talks about in her latest book Expand Beyond Your Current. Culture, Diversity and Inclusion for CEOs and Leadership.
Connect with Leslie: Instagram | Website
Maya: Welcome to What You See, Is What You Get! My name is Maya Jain, and I am your host! I am the founder of Tyrian Purple Consulting, where we work with event service providers to grow their sales through meaningful connection and collaboration.
What You See, Is What You Get, is a series of conversations with extraordinary entrepreneurs, heart driven event pros, and sensational creatives, who I know, and have the pleasure and privilege of working wit. These interviews revolve around the importance of connecting authentically and purposefully, and how it leads to personal growth and business success. My wish is that with access to these insights, you too will grow, learn, and benefit from creating meaningful connections and partnerships.
Welcome to another episode of what you see is what you get – growth through meaningful connection and collaboration.
My guest today is Leslie Short. She is an amazing woman. She’s a multi-hyphenate entrepreneur that embodies the “what you see what you get” personality. She is so much more than just what she does. She’s been pro ballet dancer. She has lived in Japan. She’s lived in Europe, she’s run companies. She’s the owner of K.I.M Media LLC.
She’d worked in luxury events, PR marketing, TV production. She is an activist, a certified mental health aid, and she now is a transformational coach, as well as CEO and leadership advisor. I can’t wait to dive in about what diversity, inclusion, gender, and all of those things that we are struggling with, especially lately have, what role they play in your personal growth, and how you can connect with other people.
So, let’s dive right in!
Hi, Leslie.
Leslie: Hello there?
Maya: How are you?
Leslie: I’m Good. How are you doing good?
Maya: Good! No complaints. Healthy, relatively happy. I get to talk to you. So, today’s is all that much better! How are you doing with all the things that you’re doing?
Leslie: I’m doing really well in the midst of the madness. I work from home unless I was in a client’s office. It wasn’t an adjustment to work from home other than, turning half of my living room into a recording studio, with microphones and five lights, and all the stuff for that start, being a contributor for the news at night. It was like all of a sudden, I had to like, “okay, my office is really cool”, but I need my office to be my office.
And now the living room is the studio and, work like everyone shifted and disappeared. With the murder of George Floyd, with the diversity from that of course exploded. And then you had to decipher through all the madness, and to really honing into the clients that really want to do the work.
O the life side, I mask up, and I go down the street and I get my gummy worms and I come back in and I’m good!
Maya: It’s a very different way of life. For people that don’t know you Leslie, who is Leslie Short?
Leslie: I think it depends at what stage you met me.
Maya: Let’s have it today, who is Leslie Short today?
Leslie: There we go because that’s a whole another conversation. Leslie Short is someone who walks in faith and walks with strength. And that means that I know that I always have options no matter where I am or what I’m doing, I am blessed enough to be doing the work that I absolutely love, that I dream about.
You know, when I created the Cavu Group, everything I’ve ever done in my past led me to creating this and I get to use so many skills, and for my chaplaincy and ministry that people may or may not know from the events world, from performing, from running businesses and owning businesses, and my European and Asian and all of that comes together to the Cavu Group.
Maya: Are you a true multi-hyphenate entrepreneur. There’s no other word for you. Your bio is beautifully long in the best possible way. You have so many skills, so many strengths, everything from classically trained ballet dancer, pro ballet dancer, actually not just to having a business in Japan, to being an activist, a certified mental health aid – which we’re going to come back to what that means and what that brings to what you’re doing today, to now being really focused on diversity and inclusion training, and workshops, and conflict management.
Of course, it is what you see is what you get through growth and meaningful connection is what we’re talking about. One to focus on, and there’s so many things we could be talking about and focusing on, but I do want to talk about diversity and inclusion for a little bit, just for it for a little bit. Right now, I don’t know how to say this, I’ve known you a very long time, I’m just going to say it, how I think it makes sense.
People are tiptoeing around, what can I ask? What can I not ask? Is it appropriate to ask? Should I be asking? And of course, it has, correctly colored, no pun intended, how we approach communication with each other, with people of color, with people that are different than ourselves.
Is there in your experience? Does it make a difference when somebody says, “it’s never been a problem for me, I’m good.” Basically, it’s always been a part of me. I’m very cognizant of it. What would you say to them?
Leslie: God bless you! You’re the only one in the world because, everybody else got issues!
We’re human beings. That’s the first thing we need to realize. We are human beings, and we know what we know, and we come from what we know, even if it doesn’t affect where we are today, we come from what we know. Therefore, there are already preconceived notions of who someone you think someone will be, or you assume that they are going to be all of that.
I just say, “that’s great!” Then tell the secret if you feel that you know, but we all have biases. It’s understanding your bias and where they come from. And that’s one of the reasons I created the Cavu Group truth be told one. One, I got tired of hearing the word diversity and inclusion thrown around, like it was losing pocket.
And then two, it’s also company culture is also equity. But it’s also understanding that it’s about people. It’s not about data and numbers. There is a place for data in numbers and diversity inclusion, but you’re dealing with people. And if you don’t understand how people are made up, and that every black person is not monolithic, whereas every person of color or everyone with disabilities.
Diversity is gender race, LGBTQ plus disability, sight seen and unseen and veterans. If you’re not prepared to have a full conversation, then you’re stuck on race and gender. And so, you already are wrong. You’re already limiting yourself to a tight conversation. Since the murder of George Floyd, you know clearly, I’ve been doing the work since then.
I have never used the word black as much as I’ve used it this time. I thought that was a given. If you are still looking at me as a black woman, that’s on you. I’m clear on who I am. I never thought I needed to shout it. You figure out why I’m in the room. I don’t need to prove to you why I’m in the room.
Maya: You and I have had actually, I think our conversation was what, two years ago, if we remember we met and we were talking about, because I think of it again, having my multicultural background, I tend to consider myself as somebody who is inclusive, because I’m just used to being in multiple cultures at multiple times across different things.
I understand that how one culture sees something, is very different from what the other culture sees something. I’ve had the opportunity to be at that crossroads when sometimes those things butt heads. It’s interesting that, even for me, I was like, Leslie, I need to have a conversation about what am I missing.
I’m about to produce this event with somebody, and I feel like we’re missing something somewhere. And it was important to me to come to you and say, what am I missing? You did ask me, you said how do you see this? What are you doing for disability? What are you doing for, what does your website look like? Are you doing all texts for people that might have vision impairments or difficulty? It is so much of a wider conversation, and I tend to ask my guests this question: first impressions. With you, it might be a little bit of a loaded question, when I asked this.
How do you feel about first impressions? What are two words you would like people to know, think of when they meet you for the first time or the other variation of this is, what two words or phrases do people use to describe you? While they sound very similar, they’re two very…
Leslie: Different things and depends on where you met me and my life. Strengthened energy, and that’s what I hope because you don’t know how people really perceive you, that I walk into the room with, and that’s what I’m looking from others and maybe not strength, but their energy. I’m feeding off for someone’s energy. There are times where I’ve been in for a procedure, truth be told at the top of last week, and the nurse that was running frantically I said, “Oh Lord, I hope she’s okay, I hope I don’t get her.” And sure enough, she said, “Ms. Short.”
So, with up to me, I felt to flip that energy, because I couldn’t have that. I just looked her dead in the face and said, “How are you really doing? How’s your morning going? Seems like you’re running, they got you going. Huh?” And it totally took her down. Our conversation completely shifted to the point that I wanted to wear something that had been blessed, but it was metal. And she said, “Oh! I can make a pocket and I can cover it for you.” Like it totally went completely different. I was able to set the tone of her energy, but I am feeding off of someone’s energy, and I’m going to assume someone’s going to feed off of mine when you’re walking into a room.
May: Yeah! That is so true. So many times, you meet somebody for the first time, and you’re like, “We’re not, no, this is not.” And then you meet them a different time and you’re like wait, what? No, that’s not..
First impressions are a tough fallacy for somebody that’s looking to grow, to build their network, to build their connections, but personally, or for business reasons, whatever we may have, what’s a piece of advice you would give them in terms of, what’s a good question to ask. I know most people go with, where are you from? What do you do? But is there, from your diversity and inclusion lessons, is there a better question when you first meet somebody? Is that even a valid question? My question?
Leslie: What drew you to this event? What brings you here today? Because then you are already on a conversation level that you’re both in already in the room, so it’s not, why are you here?
What brings you here today? Do you know one of the speakers? Is this a topic that you love? You make it a bit more personal right off the bat instead of the, “Oh! what are you doing here? Or why are you here? Where are you from? Or what do you do? Just say, you can also say, “Wow! I’ve come beause I’m really excited to hear the speaker today!” What brings you in?
Maya: More neutral, more open. When you meet somebody for the first time, what’s the first thing you want to know about them and why?
Leslie: It’s funny I saw that question. I always had to think about it because I don’t know if I ever really knew about it. I’ll meet someone I’m like, hi. And I’ll be like, how are you at this moment sometimes instead of at not how are you doing? Or how’s your day? How are you at this moment? That starts at a very different conversation. My feet hurt or cooking too long, or you know what, I’m excited to be here.
It just it opens it up a little bit more. It just depends, but a lot of times that’s the way I will go.
Maya: Thank you! I thought I knew a lot, but I’m learning. I love the opportunity to learn. And I think that is a really great way of thinking about it. Ask about the moment, because it’s much more likely that you will get an answer that’s not canned and much more open or not, or also possibly not, but much, much more open. You meet a lot of people. Like I said, you’ve done a lot of things across many different industries. Bad way to phrase the question, hopefully not, but have you noticed over your lifetime when you meet certain people, are there certain characteristics? Is there something in that first meeting or that subsequent meetings where you’re like, “Oh! I know this is. I’ve seen this before. This is this person, or this has happened.” Chances are, do you have default templates? Stereotypes is the word that most people would use but like in your experience or is it just everybody’s different and there’s no real,
“Oh! this person did this or this so this will happen.”
Leslie: There’s people that fall into categories, let’s be honest, but I allow them to put themselves in categories, I don’t. I go in with no expectation, and if you may say something, I think you know me well enough that I may call you on it. I was in a room and at that moment, and I was the only black person. Actually, I think outside of the two women that were working, I was probably the only woman in the room at that moment, at that particular moment.
And we were getting coffee, and someone said hello to me, other people were saying hello to me and someone else, we were nudging each other. And his friend, I felt his energy and we turned to talk, and he said, “Oh! Why are you here?” I have to say, and I saw the other guy’s face. I said, “You are really confused why I’m here, aren’t you?” And he just got up and his friend was like, “I love you!” He thought for a while and was like, “Oh! You have more credentials than I have to be here”. So, we’re all here then, we’ve agreed on that. And again, it flipped, but you have to read people’s energy, there’s people that don’t look you in the face or that weak handshake. Not that we can be shaking anybody’s hands anytime soon.
Maya: Yeah. It’s off limits.
Leslie: But you can feel, I’m still going to again, B. Hello? How are you? I’m Leslie, blah, blah, blah, and keep it moving because it’s not about me. It’s about them, and I don’t have time to fix everybody. That’s not my job!
Maya: Amen to that! I don’t think any of us have time to fix anybody else. But I think keeping connected to who you are, knowing what you are, is very important. This is something I’ve heard now across conversations where people are like, you need to know, get sorted on the inside, and the outside tends to take care of itself. You don’t have to worry about any of it. You’re good, right? And yet we all have to do work a hundred percent.
Now, more interesting things about you. The kids, like I keep saying, Leslie has so many lives and so many Leslie’s that I know. What is, if people don’t know you well there, I hope they will look you up and see how the amazing things you’ve done in your lifetime, and hopefully we’ll continue to do more. What is one non-work activity or interest that most people watching, listening in, may not know?
Leslie: Most of them know it, because I’m pretty much an open book, but I’m going to say probably that I’m a champion boxer. I actually have a belt, and then I walk into certain boxing gyms, they actually have to call me champ. I did not start boxing until 40.
Maya: I actually knew that. I knew the 41, and can I tell you something? Just to clear any biases that might be why I love Leslie Short so much, she was my wedding planner. I have known Leslie a very long time. She was a lifesaver then, it was beautiful, thank you! Just everybody loved it, but I did not know that about you. And the other day when I found out I was like, “Wait, what? She started boxing 40. I still have a chance! Yes!”
Leslie: We all have options. And for us, we don’t have to tell the rest of the age, but to write this at the opportunity that I have, that just one more thing. We are the ones that put ourselves in boxes, and you can’t because of. I believe I can, because I want to, that’s the end of the conversation right there. And I grew up on a poster and you got to do a level. There’s all the other stuff, but to limit yourself because of age or gender, if we want to figure out how to get something done, especially in this day and age, even in the time of COVID. Even more so when the time of COVID, you absolutely can figure it out.
That’s where your connections come in, and not your connection of your, “Oh, I really aging myself now” Your Rolodex, your phone, or clubhouse. Really your true connections, what have you built along the way that you can ask someone a question or say, “Can I have 10 minutes? I’m thinking about this.” You can build it if you want it.
Maya: Yes, it takes time. You have to really want to talk to somebody for things other than yourself, in my opinion when you’re making that connection. Especially now, speaking of this time that we’re in and COVID and all that. So many people are like, “Oh my God, my life is so limited! My life is so limited! I can’t do this! I can’t do that!” But on the other hand, I’ve met so many people that are like, this is the great reset. If there was ever anything that you wanted to do and you were like, I actually really want to do, I don’t know, build sandcastles.
Let’s just say, you never really figured out what that transition would look like on your CV. And you’re sitting there in a nine to five or what have you, and you’re going, “Well I will never be able to explain this move to whatever it is that I care about on my CV.” How do I do that? Welcome, say “Thank you COVID”, you get to reset because everybody’s starting over. Everybody is, it’s a new playing field. So I think it’s…
Leslie: But people don’t have the pressure that they have to get something done as well. You don’t have to write a book. You don’t have to build castles; sandcastles and you don’t have to bake bread. If this is something you’ve been speaking about doing, now is the time.
Maya: Speaking of writing books, and now is the time, tell me more about your book.
Leslie: This is not the first book deal I’ve had. I had a book two years ago to write a brand-new book and that’s where connections come in. And though I had all the right connections, it wasn’t the right connections, it wasn’t the right time, it wasn’t the right writer. It just wasn’t as good as it all was, it wasn’t. This came at the right time in the right place. It’s called a Expand Beyond Your Current Culture.
That’s what I’ve always said, when I built the Cavu Group, it was expand beyond your current culture. I never really used diversity and inclusion because people are bias for diversity and inclusion. But when I say expand beyond your current culture, what does that mean? What does that look like? What does that feel like? And I believe that there are four pillars to it. There is diversity, inclusion, equity and company culture. If you can bring in as many diverse people as you want, remember gender, race, LGBTQ plus disabilities, veterans, all of that. But if they don’t feel inclusive within, if their voices aren’t being heard, if they aren’t being valued, then it doesn’t mean anything. You’re not retaining them. And then if your company culture is not structured, built, and ready to have people that may not look like you sound like you to walk like you grow within. What are you doing? You’re defeating the purpose.
Then you say it doesn’t work. Expand beyond your current culture is really a manual to CEOs and leaderships. I wrote it as if I was sitting in a cafe or bar with them. It’s a Leslie talk is what I say, it is not written, I am not a PhD, I did not write one or write it like a PhD. I wrote it like, “You, what are you doing? You have been in the news three times. You cannot tell me now, that you don’t understand that what you’re doing is cultural appropriation. Tell me that.” And I really have written it, tell me you want to know, how we know, and then I have it bullet pointed, why we know you’re you are purposely either ignoring this or don’t care.
And then I interviewed 30 something other people said, what do you want CEOs and leaderships to know, give me a paragraph, give me your baseline, and so you see that sprinkled in with stories, that real life stories that have happened.
Maya: What is the most common thing that in your 30 interviews came through? I’m sure that’s not one because it’s all situational, but if you had to say a common thread across all the interviews, what’s the one that stands out the most?
Leslie: Value! That people want to know they are valued and respected. They’re not just in the room. That they have valid respective voices and thoughts in that room.
Maya: How does somebody create a culture of valuing who they work with and not just from an organizational standpoint, but even connecting with people. It’s an internal culture, if you will, of valuing somebody other’s opinion, somebody other’s feelings, somebody other’s way of life. What would you say is a good jumping off point, a starting point to say, if somebody says, you know what, I really could do this, what’s a good place to start? Because it can be overwhelming when you start talking sort of inclusion. There are so many big groups, like what’s a good jumping off point?
Leslie: So, I go look at yourself. What’s your added value? What’s your added value to another human being? What’s your added value to what you do in this job that may be able to help someone? And it’s just that simple. Because if you understand your added value, and you see what someone else is doing and that, you may be able to either work with them, guide them or help them get through the system. You know, like I know you’ve been trying to speak to over there. I see what you’re doing.
Tell me more about what’s going on so I can, maybe when I meet with them, I’m cool with them. I can maybe start seeding it in for you. And so sometimes it’s not always about what you can do for them, but it’s how you can work together, and what you get to bring and vice versa. Does that make sense?
Maya: It makes a hundred percent sense. Again, it starts with what you’re bringing to the table, and what you can do versus what they need sort of.
Leslie: It’s not what you think they need.
Maya: Ask, find out what they need.
Leslie: Say hello in the elevator to someone. Say hello as you cross down a corridor. Say hello when you get on the zoom call, not to the four people that you just finished texting two minutes ago, like you “we’re going back each other up, you start to check, I will start to check.”
Maya: People do it.
Leslie: It’s valid! I’ve called people out, “I know you chatting under the chat, across the chat. Could you put it down?”
Maya: That’s a great segue into something that I was going to bring up right now. With what’s happening in the world right now, especially around race and gender as well, because I think gender has always been a thing, but now with the heightened sense of, or the heightened attention that race is getting, gender, women and their role in the world is? The word that I think of is, there’s a lot of folk authenticity around. Of course, we support you, but then to your point, there’s like the chat across the round the front, and then when you get on a conversation, it’s of course we do, but that’s not. Have you noticed that coming up, and for somebody who wants to truly genuinely be more inclusive and build a culture of diversity and a more fair world, for lack of a better way of putting that. What are we looking for when – you’re like that – how do you tell when somebody is truly, I want to change this, versus lip service?
Leslie: One, I don’t let them use the word fair, equitable. As fair, there’s no such thing as fair. My fair and your fair, normally don’t add up! Salary negotiations, right? So, it’s equitable. And I really say to them, are you prepared to do the work? This work is not easy. I’m not going to say to you, “Oh, you’re doing it wrong because”, and everyone said, “no, but we have in, or we have it written in our handbook”, and I’m like, “that’s great!”
Who wrote the handbook? But when was the last time you checked it and everyone signs off because, “Oh, I got a gig!” You sign off on the 90-page, 80-page, 70-page handbook. But now I’m going back is the language inclusive, is the crown act in your handbook so that you can wear your natural hair because that’s not only for African Americans. That’s where it was built, but it is also now for men with beers that are cultural, those types of thing, of course, unless you’re working where we’re hair needs to be covered, that’s a different conversation. Are you looking at what holidays you are celebrating? Are you looking at how many mental health days you have? I’m building – I call that low-hanging fruit, and so I’m breaking down with companies that. And then I’ve had companies that have allowed me, and I’m going to say allowed me to have conversations with staff without any executives on it.
One-on-one doing assessments. I do a lot of company assessments. This takes a lot of time and I come back to them with the assessment, and some are shocked that they have found racism, or sexism, or colorism, harassment within, because of course at the top, sometimes you’re thinking things are cool.
And I get to show them how uncool they are, and how we can now begin to build not only fix what’s happening at that particular moment, but build an ecosystem on how people can report, and how people can probably get wpromoted, and how people more than two people to go speak to in the company, who are the people that can handle certain things, I help build that so that it becomes equitable.
Maya: How does – I’m going off tangent entirely, but I’m just so curious, and I have the chance to pick your brain, so I’m going to. What does reporting look like? What should it look like? I think is the better answer because we all know what it looks like. It doesn’t look like anything.
Leslie: Right! It looks like you go to HR, or you go to your manager. What happens? Most people don’t want to go to HR because they don’t want it in their file or, their trust issue or, their manager could be the one that’s doing it. Right? That has the microaggression that’s blocking you from going to a different department.
I’m looking at, can you speak to all managers across the board? Anyone that you have a relationship with that may be better that’s a manager? You can have that conversation with them. Then that process goes, where does it go next to that person? Where does it go? If it needs to go to HR or if it’s certain things that have to be reported?
They already know their responsibility to have to report it to HR. Then you get bought in and you have a decision – is it a hardcore report or is this something you just want to be documented? Does it go to the CEO? Each company is a little bit different that we have to build where that goes by giving employees more than two options to report and how they can report. Can they report anonymously, or is it on a sheet of paper? We worked through that with each company.
Leslie: One of the reasons I’m focusing on for this conversation, because most people are like, what does this have to do with growing? It has everything to do with growing, because if people are comfortable around you, if people understand that you care about them in a way that’s outside of what they can do for you, or what does it look like for them on their promotion ladder or what have you, you can become a safe space, and people feel that. And people – at least in my opinion, people can feel when you were being genuine and they – to what you said before, they will give you that 10 minutes when you need something. And as they say, this is such a cliche analogy, but like they say on, I think LinkedIn would be the place where they say this, don’t try and build your network when you need your network. It’s the same thing!
It’s not all of a sudden being nice to everybody because you find yourself at a crossroads, good or bad, it doesn’t matter. This is why – and you’re one of the few people that I know that really dived into culture in a more holistic way. And it’s not just, as you said, numbers, it’s we’re we live and die by who we know, and what we know, and what we know about ourselves. I’m really taking this opportunity to pull the stuff.
Leslie: I call it what’s in your bag? What are you bringing along with you? Your childhood, your traumas, your awards, you’re, all of it. What are you presenting? And then, some people go I don’t know why they don’t like me, or they don’t see me or why they’re not connected with me.
What are you sharing? What are you showing? But it’s authentically showing and sharing, because we can all get really cute now from the waist up, and put on the persona, but just think about any events that when it’s cute and they’re boasting, I have this and I’m going there, and I’m doing that. Then they’re crying in a corner, or they don’t have the gig. Instead of “we’ve lost the idea”, I – and this was one of your questions, so I want to segue again. But I do believe this in collaboration and connecting, I was on the phone last night for an hour and a half with a woman that I met on clubhouse.
Maya: What is clubhouse, somebody tell me this, because I’ve been seeing clubhouse stuff, and I don’t know what it is.
Leslie: She is a reporter. She does DNI at the station where she works. She heard me speaking, and I corrected someone on a term, and she was like, “Oh my God, you corrected someone right then and there, but the way you did it, and I could see, I could hear, because you don’t see, that you all had a relationship and that they took it from you.”
Like they took that criticism, but then they were like, you know what? I do need to be better. Thank you for that, and she was like, then I looked at your resume and you were someone I wanted to connect with. There’s opportunity. Are there opportunities for businesses? Maybe not! But I found someone amazing that I already sent her a text this morning because she’s like in negotiating something. I was like, go for it!
Maya: You never know! It was collaboration. The question was, what’s the best experience you’ve ever had in a collaborative situation, but I actually want to ask you a slightly different question.
What do you think takes courage in a collaborative experience? When you’re in a relationship because we all are in a relationship at some point with each other. What do you think is the most courageous element of being in a collaboration or in a relationship or, building a connection?
Leslie: I don’t know. Saying that to someone, I don’t know, knowing what you know, and it’s okay to say, I don’t know. I always think about your dad, truth be told, in the wedding, he kept asking me, where does the rice go? And I was like, “I don’t know. I have to wait. I have to wait for her to come to show me.” He thought about that. And I had all the answers that he can to me for, but I did not have that, and I said, “I honestly, I have to wait because it’s cultural and I don’t want to put it somewhere that it’s not proper. So, I wait for her to show me where she would like it. “
And he was like, but – and I guess he was like you have all the other answers for everything else.
Maya: And for context, the “her” that Leslie’s referring to is actually – I had an Indian wedding, ethnically I’m half Indian, half German. I was born and raised in India. When I had my wedding, the only way I’d ever imagined my wedding, wasn’t Indian wedding, it happened in New York City. And the “her” that we keep referring to is actually my priestess – who married me and my husband.
For those that are not familiar with the Indian culture. A female priestess is something very rare. It is being a priest, or being any kind is based on the caste system. Which is why culture and like these things are like – I grew up in a culture with restrictions based on who you are, what you see, where you were born, what your family does.
So yes, the heart is a female priestess. She is amazing. That woman is – she is a joy! She is a blessing to the world. So, the “her” is this priestess.
Leslie: And I was not messing up where to put that rice, because I respect what she does. Because I understood the culture doesn’t mean I know the culture, it wasn’t my place to put that there.
And I was really fine, and to understand that there’s things that she needs to do and come in here and shift. And so that’s always – and because I do Chinese, events, and weddings, and conversations, and conferences, and speak on Tai – I have to know. I know what I know, and then to be okay to collaboration to say, while I don’t know that I can either find it out, or I’ll let you lead that because you’re stronger in that than I am.
Maya: This is a throwback to a conversation to a webinar I was listening in, where you were presenting about when you said, you as a black person, in order to “prove yourself”, had to learn so much more about various wedding traditions, and various wedding cultures, to say that you could do it versus a non- white person essentially, right? Because people just make the assumption that they know what a Jewish wedding will be, but, or what other ones is. It is a throwback. You will have to think about it so much more, I think, but we all need to think about it so much more.
Leslie: Yes, culturally, and there’s always a joke because they do so many, or I do so many Jewish weddings. And one fan was like, look at the black girl, telling the Jewish family what to do, and you know what she’s writing, we’re so wrong right now. And it was about how – they’re like, she’s so right! And you know, and then there was one that was like – one of the guests went up to the father and said, we gave the envelope to the black woman.
He’s that’s the only person you should be given the envelope. Please don’t give the envelope to anyone else in here. There is that where I’ve always studied culture, but I lived out of the United States for 13 and a half years. I lived in Europe. I didn’t visit, I lived there. Does that make me an expert on Germany or France?
No, but I definitely have a different sensibility to alters and understanding. The same as in Japan, yet I get hired by Chinese, Japanese and Chinese are not the same, but they – and I’ll never forget when he came to me an agency and said, I don’t know who you are, but I watched the way you respect my culture.
I hate working with you because everything has to be on time, and on schedule, and we’re not like that, but I need to work with you because I need to be like that.
Maya: I think my dad might’ve said the same thing about you, where he was like, “she won’t change the timeline. We need more time!”.
Leslie: It was already five hours and hours!
Maya: We can do whatever you want in five hours. That’s what it’s going to be live with. It’s true though. There is something to be said about discipline in our business, right? You’ve had so many different careers, but you’ve spent a huge chunk of it, around some very influential people, CEOs and movers and shakers.
And you’ve also spent a huge chunk of it in luxury bespoke. Our clients care about people that know what they’re doing, that are disciplined and do, as they say and say, as they do, it’s just that simple. And I think that’s also what people forget, do as you say, as you do, because when it comes to all of it, diversity, culture, inclusion, connecting with somebody, you and I could not have this conversation.
You and I could have the conversation because we have a different relationship, but when I emailed you about saying, “Hey, Leslie, I’m doing this thing, would you know, would you be willing to be interviewed?” Your first question was, “let’s talk about the title.” And I was like, because you’re like – as a black, and I’m just going to paraphrase off of what it was.
As a black woman, I get put in a box and people tend to really just assume that what they see is what they know, and they make all these assumptions. And I just want to understand where you’re coming from. I was so glad that you asked the question. I was so glad I was like, I want people to get to know you better. It’s a misnomer though. The whole point is we’re all more than just one thing, more than our Instagram, more than our LinkedIn, more than our job, more than age, color, race, gender. In case you haven’t noticed guys, I’m touchy about gender.
Leslie: Even for me, it wasn’t even so much about me being a black woman. It was about me being a DEI. That’s just what I do for a living, and this is what my passion is. To be something that’s – and someone’s going to get me some to circle back to clubhouse in a second, I have to be – to interview, and what – where were you thinking? And so to not to assume, what your title was? I asked, I said, “what where are you going with the title” so I can understand, and then I get to make a judgment call on that.
Just quickly on clubhouse, people will say, “Oh Leslie, they are so against everything that you stand for because it’s an inclusive club at this moment where you have to have invites, or someone has to vouch for you to go in.”
And that’s opening up, and that’s how they did the beta. And that’s a whole different conversation with them.
Maya: That’s true for every platform ever. Anybody who’s on any other platform when they’re testing it’s by invite only. Right now, actually I do know clubhouse, I did Google it because I was really conscious of the fact that I didn’t know what it was.
It’s an Apple only thing right now, but how many things get rolled out on a specific? I’m working with a platform that by the way, does not work on Apple, does not work on an iPad, does not work on a phone, but it’s in developmental phase. If you don’t see the difference between new adoption of technology, and being the tester person and exclusion, then you need to either read Leslie’s book, call Leslie and let her give you some better instructions.
Leslie: Thank you. Appreciate that.
Maya: No, yes, of course. We’re also naturally wired to be drawn towards the things that we’re familiar with. In many ways, it’s human nature, its genetically nature hardwired into us because that’s fight or flight. None of us are fighting or flighting right now.
Leslie: Right, and it’s also excuse. I worked with an international company and someone kept saying it to me, but it’s my culture, “men are”, and he kept going and I was like, okay. And he kept wanting to run it into and I was like, “you do realize this is going to be my process, right?” Okay. So, I understand your culture, but there’s your culture of, how you live, and there’s the culture of how you work. And when you work, you can’t flex, you can’t jump over women in conversations. You can’t assume colorism of who you are. You can’t assume because your friend said that it’s okay for you to say it, or because your buddies with the CEO, that it all works out.
That’s an excuse for being lazy. At a point you have to say, if it’s important to you, I am going to expand beyond my current culture, and going to a restaurant and trying new food is great, that’s a step, but you go in and be like, “Oh my God, I’m so international. I eat Thai food, or I eat that”, that is not the same.
Maya: Yeah. It’s when it gets hard. Are you still trying the new thing? It’s not, when you choose to do the new thing, it makes a difference.
Leslie: Open to being different.
Maya: If this were a mentoring session, and somebody came to you and said, Leslie, one idea, one thing, what would you leave people with?
Leslie: Don’t get hung up on the perception of what you think you should be, build what you want to be one step at a time. It’s not going to be easy, but you have options. Everyone has options. Figure out your options, and stop trying to reach over there, and look around where you are.
Maya: Wise words from Ms. Leslie Short. Where can people find you if they want to go looking for you, yell at you about your clubhouse membership or other things?
Leslie: They can go on Instagram @thecavugroup. My website is https://thecavugroup.com/. In our website, I have a podcast. If you want to hear more about my approach to different things, it is called Visibility Unlimited, and that’s on Apple podcast, and all the listening stations.
And of course, shameless plug. Pick up the book. If you just want to have a better understanding how you can approach competence, culture, equity, inclusion, diversity for yourself, and for your company.
Maya: The book in case you missed it is called, Expand Beyond Your Current Culture, Diversity and Inclusion for CEOs and Leadership, by Leslie Short. Her company name is The Cavu Group, and Cavu is spelled C-A-V-U.
Leslie: In three years, we’re going to get a construction company.
Maya: Yes, please. No construction companies. @thecavugroup on Instagram and also for the website. Leslie, as always huge virtual hugs. I miss you so much. I cannot wait to see you in person, and walk down the block, have gummy bears and coffee.
Leslie: And champagne, and a cheese puff on waiting.
Maya: Thank you so much.
Leslie: Stay safe. Thanks.